Rick steves backpack - May 1, 2009 · On sale, it ran me around $55 Canadian, as opposed to the $130-150 Canadian for the Rick Steves bag. For still less than two Rick Steves bags, I bought 2 of the weekender, and 3 bundles of packing cubes. I agree with others that packing cubes are a must with this bag - some sizes fit perfectly and really maximize the space.

 
Mar 2, 2008 · There are several solutions to protect Packs from damage. Some airlines use the "Saran Wrap" method, which works well but is a bit difficult to remove on the other side (especially as knives, etc. are INSIDE your checked luggage). I've seen garbage bags used, but not very robust (tear easily). . Dean's south of the border

Jun 21, 2022 · 06/21/22 06:57 PM. 192 posts. I have a packable backpack from Eddie Bauer that I really like. I believe it’s 30L (I think they make a couple different sizes). I use it as my personal item on flights. It’s soft and squishable so I’ve never had trouble fitting it under the seat. Posted by Sun-Baked in Florida. Nov 12, 2021 · Find a pack close to this length. Also, length has to be balanced against volume needed for packing. So, my rule for 1 week of casual clothing is for people shorter than 5’7” is a pack that is 38-40 liters in volume and 19 -20” long. For taller folks - feel free to upsize to a 20 - 22” pack at 45 liters. A backpack that can be converted into a suitcase for easy travel. Expandable, comfortable and spacious, with a 2500-cubic-inch capacity and a 41-liter suitcase mode. Available in 4 colors and made of polyester fabric. Jan 16, 2017 ... a single backpack! Rick Steves (travel guide extraordinaire) inspired me to do this and can't wait to report back when I'm home! Let me know ...It's also the ideal "junior big bag" for kids who aren't ready to lug around a full-size carry-on bag. Feels Good: Ergonomically curved and padded straps and a breathable back panel give this a comfy fit, no matter how much weight you carry. Outside: The classic, Rick Steves outer-pocket design combination gives it a clean, efficient look. The ... Feb 16, 2018 · I use a backpack because of the weight of the bag. I have taken several flights with an 8kg (17.6 lbs) and most others have a 10kg (22 lbs) limit. Rolling bags just take up too much of that allowance. For example, the Rick Steves rolling carry-on is 6.65lbs versus the Convertible Carry-On at only 2.7lbs. Rick Steves offers a range of travel bags and luggage for different travel needs and …It's also the ideal "junior big bag" for kids who aren't ready to lug around a full-size carry-on bag. Feels Good: Ergonomically curved and padded straps and a breathable back panel give this a comfy fit, no matter how much weight you carry. Outside: The classic, Rick Steves outer-pocket design combination gives it a clean, efficient look. The ... Jan 18, 2016 ... Here it is: Rick's favorite day pack — the one you see him wearing on TV! Made from ultra-soft microfiber, it rolls up into practically ...May 1, 2009 · On sale, it ran me around $55 Canadian, as opposed to the $130-150 Canadian for the Rick Steves bag. For still less than two Rick Steves bags, I bought 2 of the weekender, and 3 bundles of packing cubes. I agree with others that packing cubes are a must with this bag - some sizes fit perfectly and really maximize the space. Jun 17, 2009 · 06/17/09 02:05 AM. 521 posts. Hi Billy, Rick Steves recommends that you pack everything up, and walk around town for awhile to make sure that you are comfortable carrying the weight of your pack. I agree that 25 lbs is not bad, but just give it a try for a couple of hours to make sure you have no issues of mobility. Apr 10, 2017 · Vernon, Canada. 04/10/17 12:58 PM. 32124 posts. At least one of my packs (Eagle Creek) is equipped with an elasticized rain cover which fits tightly around the pack. It's attached to the pack so can't be removed. It's very light so I don't perceive any "extra weight". When it comes to finding your next vehicle, having a wide selection to choose from is crucial. Rick Hendrick Chevrolet understands this and offers an extensive inventory of vehicle...Pack your bag only two-thirds full to leave room for souvenirs, or bring along an empty featherweight nylon bag to use as a carry-on for your return flight, then check your main bag through (this is when expandable compartments really come in handy). Go casual, simple, and very light. Remember, in your travels you'll meet two kinds of tourists ... Jul 12, 2012 · Just as a wheelie bag or other type of suitcase is not designed to be used for backcountry camping. I think you may be happier using a bag that was designed for the intended purpose of city to city travel. My sister used an internal frame for a couple of trips to Europe--it worked okay, but she switched to a Rick Steves bag and it worked much ... Strong to Last Long: Our freshly redesigned Ravenna Day Pack is made from the same full-strength polyester fabric as Rick's carry-on luggage, so it's up for any challenge. Practical: Just a little bigger than our Civita Day Pack , our Ravenna Day Pack is surprisingly roomy, featuring five outside zippered compartments, a pair of breathable ... Shop for lightweight, durable, and comfortable travel backpacks from Rick Steves, a …$17.99 Lightweight yet durable Folds into its own pocket Comfortable, adjustable straps Shipping & Returns Buy your Packable Backpack: Available in 2 colors: Quantity: Add To Cart Description Product Details Our Product Guarantee Our lightweight Packable Backpack is ready to go anywhere. TSA™ Combo Travel Lock. Share. $9.99. The only type of lock allowed in US airports. TSA inspectors can open and relock. Deter baggage-handler theft. Key-free, three-digit combination and flexible loop closure. Shipping & Returns. Are you planning a trip to Rome and looking for the perfect accommodations? Look no further than the handpicked hotels recommended by travel expert Rick Steves. With his extensive ...Italy is renowned for its stunning landscapes, rich history, and delectable cuisine. Whether you’re planning a romantic getaway to Venice or an adventurous trip to the Amalfi Coast...Fly Happy: Here's the perfect under-the-seat bag for everything you want within easy reach during your flight. You'll be amazed by how much our Euro Flight Bag holds — and it folds nearly flat when empty, making it a versatile shopping/picnic bag as well. Pockets Galore: Its generous main compartment zips open extra-wide (11" x 12") for easy ... Shop for lightweight, durable, and comfortable travel backpacks from Rick Steves, a travel expert and guidebook author. Find carry-on packs, day bags, rolling backpacks, and more for your travel needs. This review looks at three pieces of travel gear he's developed from that …The classic version of our mega day pack. 1400-cubic-inch main compartment. An ideal …Sep 26, 2018 · Rick Steves Luggage reviews. I’ve looked on this forum for RS luggage reviews and many of them are several years old. I am considering buying the rolling carry on RS luggage when it goes on sale. I am looking to replace my current carry on luggage that I bought several years ago. It is quite heavy at 10# before adding any clothes. Your passport to keeping everything you need on hand without weighing yourself down is so much more than just a throwback to your days spent in the classroom. Backpacks are stylish...Rick Steves day packs are versatile, durable, and roomy enough for all your day-trip …Aug 6, 2017 · Medford, OR, USA. 08/06/17 12:34 PM. 5828 posts. For the same maximum out to out carry-on dimensions, a fabric backpack carry-on will have a larger interior volume than a roller. The backpack will also have a lighter empty weight than the same out to out size roller. (Some airlines have maximum carry-on weight limits). Shop our Travel Store for travel guides, bags, travel accessories and gear. Jump-start your European trip with a carry-on bag, packing cubes, moneybelt, day pack, Rick's travel guides, and his new DVD Box Set! There is no online evidence of Rick Dormeier divorcing Amy Dormeier, as of 2015. Rick and Amy Domeier are married with two children, both sons, according to HCI Books. Based on int...Jun 22, 2013 ... ... Rick Steves). I will say there are two kinds of people you meet on ... In the picture of you wearing the backpack, it appears to me the ...Rome, the eternal city, is a destination that offers a rich blend of history, culture, and culinary delights. If you’re planning a trip to Rome and looking for the perfect place to...Newly-hatched personal organizer Backpack is an elegant, easy-to-use web-based notebook for capturing ideas, lists, links and tasks. Newly-hatched personal organizer Backpack is an...Backpacker 2001-03 Backpacker brings the outdoors straight to the reader's doorstep, inspiring and enabling them to go more places and enjoy ... Rick Steves Best of Europe Rick Steves 2017-01-24 You can count on Rick Steves to tell you what you need to know to experience the Best of Europe.Apr 17, 2019 · The Rick Steves backpacks in the travel shop are inexpensive and last for years. I use a Pacsafe Venturesafe EXP 45L because of the security features and it's the perfect size for my travels. Just make sure that the pack conforms to 22"x14"x9" in order to meet airline regulations and even then you have to be careful as some of the low budget ... Jul 28, 2016 · 07/28/16 02:09 PM. 32146 posts. Vick, Rolling Backpacks are not an ideal solution, as the rolling mechanism adds weight and reduces cargo size. I've seen a few complaints from people that found their clothes had a few stains on them from the wheels, when the luggage was used as a Backpack. Destination Cosmo Travel Podcast is a Rick Steves Europe like Video Podcast. We bring you to Beautiful Places in HD! We cover Food like we're part of Food Network! Our podcast brings Serial, This American Life, Stuff You Should Know, Radio Lab like production to Travel Video Podcast! Whether you a…Outside: The classic, Rick Steves outer-pocket design gives it a clean, efficient look. A full-length side zipper opens to reveal a 12" x 20" compartment (perfect for a jacket). Three additional front pockets, a pair of padded grab handles, and an add-a-bag strap (adjustable and removable) complete the outside. A backpack that can be converted into a suitcase for easy travel. Expandable, comfortable and spacious, with a 2500-cubic-inch capacity and a 41-liter suitcase mode. Available in 4 colors and made of polyester fabric. When it comes to finding your next vehicle, having a wide selection to choose from is crucial. Rick Hendrick Chevrolet understands this and offers an extensive inventory of vehicle...Steves spends four months out of the year traveling Europe for work, and …The best travel book : Rick Steves – Paris 2023 – Learn more here; Fodor’s Paris 2024 – Learn more here; Travel Gear. Venture Pal Lightweight Backpack – Learn more here; Samsonite Winfield 2 28″ Luggage – Learn more here; Swig Savvy’s Stainless Steel Insulated Water Bottle – Learn more hereJan 18, 2016 ... Here it is: Rick's favorite day pack — the one you see him wearing on TV! Made from ultra-soft microfiber, it rolls up into practically ...Rome, the eternal city, is a destination that offers a rich blend of history, culture, and culinary delights. If you’re planning a trip to Rome and looking for the perfect place to...Outside: The classic, Rick Steves outer-pocket design gives it a clean, efficient look. A full-length side zipper opens to reveal a 12" x 20" compartment (perfect for a jacket). Three additional front pockets, a pair of padded grab handles, and an add-a-bag strap (adjustable and removable) complete the outside. Shop specavenus's closet or find the perfect look from millions of stylists. Fast shipping and buyer protection. Selling RICK STEVES | Mediterranean Cruise Ports 4th edition book. Don't have Poshmark account? Use my code SPECAVENUS to sign up and save $10!Dec 3, 2007 · I employed some of Steves gear traveling last month, including the 21-inch Roll-Aboard. This $139.95 suitcase—sized at 9×21 x 14 inches—is made to pass most airlines’ carry-on size limits ... Civita Day Pack. Share. $24.99. New! Zip-tight water-bottle pockets. Rick's personal day pack in Europe. Ultra-soft feel, ultra-light to carry. Roomy enough for all your day-trip items. Shipping & Returns. Apr 9, 2007 · Don't think of a backpack as having to go on your back only, try looping it over one shoulder, but when you really need to it will go on your back, they usually hold a lot more than a handbag and even have outside places for water bottles etc. which I find handy. Posted by Nicole. San Francisco, CA. 04/13/07 04:58 PM. Apr 22, 2016 ... In this travel class, Rick Steves offers advice for packing light and fitting everything you'll need for a European trip into one ...Jul 12, 2012 · Just as a wheelie bag or other type of suitcase is not designed to be used for backcountry camping. I think you may be happier using a bag that was designed for the intended purpose of city to city travel. My sister used an internal frame for a couple of trips to Europe--it worked okay, but she switched to a Rick Steves bag and it worked much ... France is a country renowned for its rich history, stunning landscapes, and world-famous cuisine. From the romantic streets of Paris to the charming villages of Provence, there is ...Carry-On with Style: Rick Steves' Ravenna Rolling Case provides sleek, hard-shell protection for what's inside — and the confidence you've packed within carry-on limits. Zip-Out Expandability: Gain an extra 2 inches of cargo depth in a pinch (making it "fatter" than the carry-on limit, but perfect for checking). Feb 8, 2023 · Most trips I carry about 20lbs of clothes and "stuff" divided between a Carry-on and a Personal item. Rick Steves Classic Back Door Bag. Basically a backpack. I have been carrying this for going on 15 years. Packing Scenario" Carry-on (2lbs) + Stuff (15.7lbs) = 17.7lbs / Personal Item (1lb) + Stuff (4.3lbs) = 5.3lbs. Jan 31, 2013 ... A review of Rick Steve's Convertible Carry-On bag. This bag is the right size to carry on a plane, is expandable and also has backpack ...Spinner Carry-On. Share. $199.99. 21" soft-side, 4-wheel suitcase. Easily navigate crowded spaces. Lightweight and expandable. Shipping & Returns. Spinner Carry-On. Share. $199.99. 21" soft-side, 4-wheel suitcase. Easily navigate crowded spaces. Lightweight and expandable. Shipping & Returns. May 30, 2022 · The rolling backpack has a capacity of only 32L; the carryon roller is 41L and is a pound more massive at 6.5#. A good carryon backpack is 40-45L and weighs three pounds. You might be able to sling your bag instead of carrying it on your back. I've been watching the reviews of various RS luggage items for three or more years. Outside: The classic, Rick Steves outer-pocket design gives it a clean, efficient look. A full-length side zipper opens to reveal a 12" x 20" compartment (perfect for a jacket). Three additional front pockets, a pair of padded grab handles, and an add-a-bag strap (adjustable and removable) complete the outside. Mar 1, 2018 · The Civita Day pack is really great to take on a trip, I've used mine for almost 8 years now and still love it. The Rick Steves company is good about replacing an item if it proves defective. Most airlines will let you bring both the rolling bag and the Civita pack on board as carry-on's. Posted by mariagambrelli OP. Personally designed by Rick Steves, you'll find the right carry-on luggage in our selection whether you're looking for a wheeled bag, backpack, or suitcase. Convertible Carry-On. $99.99. Rick Steves' Europe Through... $79.99. Spinner Carry-On. $199.99. Rolling Carry-On. MATEIN Carry on Backpack, Extra Large Travel Backpack Expandable Airplane Approved Weekender Bag for Men and Women, Water Resistant Lightweight Daypack for Flight 40L, Black. Options: 3 sizes. 7,244. 2K+ bought in past month. $3999. List: $51.99. Save $8.00 with coupon. FREE delivery Wed, Feb 7. Sep 2, 2022 ... For many, many years, I used the Rick Steves Convertible Carry-On — and Rick still does. ... backpack, which is small and light. If I forecast ...Jul 12, 2012 · Just as a wheelie bag or other type of suitcase is not designed to be used for backcountry camping. I think you may be happier using a bag that was designed for the intended purpose of city to city travel. My sister used an internal frame for a couple of trips to Europe--it worked okay, but she switched to a Rick Steves bag and it worked much ... MATEIN Carry on Backpack, Extra Large Travel Backpack Expandable Airplane Approved Weekender Bag for Men and Women, Water Resistant Lightweight Daypack for Flight 40L, Black. 6,588. $3999. List: $51.99. Save 25% with coupon. FREE delivery Fri, Oct 27. Or fastest delivery Thu, Oct 26. 1 sustainability attribute. More Buying Choices. Feb 5, 2019 · A rolling bag seems a lot easer managing and a lot less weight on the back. Second reason, I often hike, so that hiking I enjoy a little more structure than the wobbly no frame feeling (and like water bottle pockets). Factors for a backpack for me are that they weigh less to pick up. I have an IT two wheel roller bag. Personally designed by Rick Steves, you'll find the right carry-on luggage in our selection whether you're looking for a wheeled bag, backpack, or suitcase. Convertible Carry-On. $99.99. Rick Steves' Europe Through... $79.99. Spinner Carry-On. $199.99. Rolling Carry-On. Dec 3, 2007 · I employed some of Steves gear traveling last month, including the 21-inch Roll-Aboard. This $139.95 suitcase—sized at 9×21 x 14 inches—is made to pass most airlines’ carry-on size limits ... Rick Steves packable bags fold up into their own pocket and easily stow away during travel. Light yet durable, our selection of packs, duffels, and tote bags are the perfect little extra while you're on the road. Packable Duffel. $17.99. There is no online evidence of Rick Dormeier divorcing Amy Dormeier, as of 2015. Rick and Amy Domeier are married with two children, both sons, according to HCI Books. Based on int...Rick Steves' Europe Travel Center: Just Okay; Disappointing - See 48 traveler reviews, 40 candid photos, and great deals for Edmonds, WA, at Tripadvisor.Traveling with the right gear is important, and finding the bag that fits your …It's also the ideal "junior big bag" for kids who aren't ready to lug around a full-size carry-on bag. Feels Good: Ergonomically curved and padded straps and a breathable back panel give this a comfy fit, no matter how much weight you carry. Outside: The classic, Rick Steves outer-pocket design combination gives it a clean, efficient look. The ... Shop Rick Steves' European Christmas (DVD) at Best Buy. Find low everyday prices and buy online for delivery or in-store pick-up. Price Match Guarantee.A rick of wood, also known as a face cord, is typically 8 feet long and 4 feet high. The measurements can be different as long as it has a 32-square-foot face. Face cords, or ricks...rick steves convertible carry on; gg bags; hermes barda bag; shearling bags 2021; brown carry all bag; sjp carried away backpack; convertible crossbody cosmetic bag; winter bags 2021; world handbag day; funky monkey bags; bag stitch; ebag weekender; michael kors convertible; esprit backpack; skull tote; convertible bag purse; purse design 2021 ...It's also the ideal "junior big bag" for kids who aren't ready to lug around a full-size carry-on bag. Feels Good: Ergonomically curved and padded straps and a breathable back panel give this a comfy fit, no matter how much weight you carry. Outside: The classic, Rick Steves outer-pocket design combination gives it a clean, efficient look. The ... Pastor Rick Warren, the renowned author and speaker, has been a beacon of hope for millions around the world. His Daily Hope podcast has become a source of inspiration and empowerm...Are you planning a trip to Rome and looking for the perfect accommodations? Look no further than the handpicked hotels recommended by travel expert Rick Steves. With his extensive ...TSA™ Combo Travel Lock. Share. $9.99. The only type of lock allowed in US airports. TSA inspectors can open and relock. Deter baggage-handler theft. Key-free, three-digit combination and flexible loop closure. Shipping & Returns. Jul 28, 2016 · 07/28/16 02:09 PM. 32146 posts. Vick, Rolling Backpacks are not an ideal solution, as the rolling mechanism adds weight and reduces cargo size. I've seen a few complaints from people that found their clothes had a few stains on them from the wheels, when the luggage was used as a Backpack. rick steves convertible carry on; gg bags; hermes barda bag; shearling bags 2021; brown carry all bag; sjp carried away backpack; convertible crossbody cosmetic bag; winter bags 2021; world handbag day; funky monkey bags; bag stitch; ebag weekender; michael kors convertible; esprit backpack; skull tote; convertible bag purse; purse design 2021 ...The best travel book : Rick Steves – Paris 2023 – Learn more here; Fodor’s Paris 2024 – Learn more here; Travel Gear. Venture Pal Lightweight Backpack – Learn more here; Samsonite Winfield 2 28″ Luggage – Learn more here; Swig Savvy’s Stainless Steel Insulated Water Bottle – Learn more hereBody camera company Axon (formerly TASER International) is offering police departments a free one-year trial for its body cameras....AAXN Body camera company Axon (AAXN) (formerly ...Feb 16, 2018 · I use a backpack because of the weight of the bag. I have taken several flights with an 8kg (17.6 lbs) and most others have a 10kg (22 lbs) limit. Rolling bags just take up too much of that allowance. For example, the Rick Steves rolling carry-on is 6.65lbs versus the Convertible Carry-On at only 2.7lbs. Shop for lightweight, durable, and comfortable travel backpacks from Rick Steves, a travel expert and guidebook author. Find carry-on packs, day bags, rolling backpacks, and more for your travel needs. May 20, 2019 ... Visit https://store.ricksteves.com/shop/p/ravenna-hard-case-luggage for more info on Rick Steves Ravenna Rolling Case.Rick Steves' Europe Travel Center: Just Okay; Disappointing - See 48 traveler reviews, 40 candid photos, and great deals for Edmonds, WA, at Tripadvisor.Mar 2, 2008 · There are several solutions to protect Packs from damage. Some airlines use the "Saran Wrap" method, which works well but is a bit difficult to remove on the other side (especially as knives, etc. are INSIDE your checked luggage). I've seen garbage bags used, but not very robust (tear easily).

Rick Steves' site sells one that I've enjoyed. Start a related thread; Start a related poll; Reply via Boardmail; Report problem ... Time. Recommendation for a checked sized bag that can be worn as a backpack? rivercitycoug. Feb 18, 8:15pm. It’s built for photography but my Peak Design is perfect. I take out the camera inserts when not taking .... I meme therefore i am

rick steves backpack

MATEIN Carry on Backpack, Extra Large Travel Backpack Expandable Airplane Approved Weekender Bag for Men and Women, Water Resistant Lightweight Daypack for Flight 40L, Black. 6,588. $3999. List: $51.99. Save 25% with coupon. FREE delivery Fri, Oct 27. Or fastest delivery Thu, Oct 26. 1 sustainability attribute. More Buying Choices. Rick Steves rolling luggage is lightweight, durable, and designed to carry on the plane. From four-wheel spinners to two-wheel rollers, hybrid hard case to flexible soft shell, you'll find the right wheeled bag in our selection personally designed by Rick Steves. Spinner Carry-On. $199.99. Rolling Carry-On. $159.99. Ravenna Rolling Case. $199. ... Sep 5, 2020 · The straps are tucked in to a pocket. It’s easy to pull them out and clip the straps in place. They stow with the same ease. In short, it’s easy to transition from roller to backpack and back again. I also want to say that the internal space of the pack is around 30 liters. There’s plenty of room for light packers. We have a plethora of options when it comes to choosing luggage—and yet black luggage seems to be, like, 80% of the luggage I see in my travels. But why? Black luggage is harder to...Your passport to keeping everything you need on hand without weighing yourself down is so much more than just a throwback to your days spent in the classroom. Backpacks are stylish...Rick's most versatile travel bag · Use as a shoulder bag or a day pack · Expands to hold even more · Slides over the handle of any rolling bag · Gre...Apr 1, 2022 · Basically 3 considerations: 1. Go as light as possible. 2. Small backpack (20 lbs absolute max) easier to navigate train station stairs, and cobbled streets. 3. Rolling small suitcase easier to ride metros etc because you don't need to take it off to sit down. Rolling Backpack. $159.99. About Us. Contact Information · What We Do · Class ... ©2024 Rick Steves' Europe, Inc. | CST# 2086743 | Terms of Service | Privacy ...May 20, 2019 ... Visit https://store.ricksteves.com/shop/p/ravenna-hard-case-luggage for more info on Rick Steves Ravenna Rolling Case.Rick Hill BMW in Kingsport, TN is a renowned dealership that offers a wide range of luxury vehicles to customers in the area. Whether you’re looking for a sleek sedan or a powerful...May 30, 2022 · The rolling backpack has a capacity of only 32L; the carryon roller is 41L and is a pound more massive at 6.5#. A good carryon backpack is 40-45L and weighs three pounds. You might be able to sling your bag instead of carrying it on your back. I've been watching the reviews of various RS luggage items for three or more years. Body camera company Axon (formerly TASER International) is offering police departments a free one-year trial for its body cameras....AAXN Body camera company Axon (AAXN) (formerly ...Jun 21, 2022 · 06/21/22 06:57 PM. 192 posts. I have a packable backpack from Eddie Bauer that I really like. I believe it’s 30L (I think they make a couple different sizes). I use it as my personal item on flights. It’s soft and squishable so I’ve never had trouble fitting it under the seat. Posted by Sun-Baked in Florida. Aug 23, 2022 · Backpack/Bag. Jump to bottom. Posted by dublin1285 on 08/23/22 12:54 PM. I have a personal bag for the plane but I might replace it with a backpack or whatever. But I'll only be carrying maybe a sweatshirt or maybe a rain jacket/umbrella if I want to use one with me. I have a camera but it would be on my belt. Not small enough for my pants pocket. Rick Steves' Europe Travel Center: Broken merchandise & non-existent customer service - See 48 traveller reviews, 40 candid photos, and great deals for Edmonds, WA, at Tripadvisor.Rick Steves' Europe Travel Center: Just Okay; Disappointing - See 48 traveler reviews, 40 candid photos, and great deals for Edmonds, WA, at Tripadvisor..

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